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Author Topic: BitCoins  (Read 8666 times)
Mexicanjoe
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« on: March 24, 2013, 09:56:46 AM »

I saw this on Yahoo and read into it.

http://bitcoinme.com/

Its scary stuff. Looks to me like new world order money. World version of the Euro.

If its electronic then it can be erased or hacked and stolen. If the federal governments and major corporations can be hacked and identities stolen who says this cant be as well. Your money can be stolen or erased.

I will post a separate post about Not using banks and stretching your money in the proper area of the forum.

Look at this and let me know what you think about the BitCoins
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Better to have it and not need it Then need it and not have it.
Thox Spuddy
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 07:22:02 PM »

About not using banks: http://www.infinitebanking.org/ I've been looking into the bitcoin thing and do not understand pretty much anything about it despite all that I have read. It does appear to fluctuate in value quite drastically. I would like to know if it is a way to store value. Check this out: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100527259Great investment and financial advice is here: http://ftmdaily.com/
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 07:26:39 PM by Thox Spuddy » Logged
Mexicanjoe
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 07:52:17 PM »

I actua;;y do not get involved in any new thing because its new. It saved me from buying a 10mm that was overshadowed by the 40 S&W.
8 track vs cassete.

I say let it all get panned out without me and my expense.

Play conservative on new stuff and more aggressive with stuff that is proven.

What only gains value. In Hand. Gold, Silver, Ammo, food and other non perishables and renewable recourses.

Training and education come to mind. But training should not be overly specific and based wide and not specific.

Just a brown opinion.
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markthenewf
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2013, 07:11:05 PM »

Yeah, and 'currency' isn't looking looking terribly safe nowadays.  Look at what they just did in Cyprus for those that actually saved and were prepared.... they got taxed for it!

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Mark
Thox Spuddy
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2013, 07:20:00 PM »

Bitcoin is getting some serious traction: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nowthisnews/2013/03/26/the-world-is-getting-a-bitcoin-atm/
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Mexicanjoe
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2013, 07:51:24 PM »

Based on Thox and Mark I say prep and keep your prepps off the grid and quiet.

I paid for it. It was properly taxed then. It has increased in value and untill I sell it (which I wont do (barter instead)) you can not tax me on it again.
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atomic17
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 01:32:52 PM »

The problem with bitcoins is that they have no real value or buying power. You cant directly buy anything with them, and they have no inherent value.

A 20$ US bill is worth 20$ today, tomorrow, and a majority of people think 20$ in a few years. Hence why they are universally accepted in exchange for 20$ worth of goods or services. A bitcoin, by contrast, has no more value than what market pressure says its worth at that exact moment; its like a stock. Like a stock, it is subject to market valuations or corrections, and the associated value swings around wildly.

Bitcoins are actually even worse, because the only people who buy them are looking for a way to hedge wealth. As such the currency is even more volatile than a simple stock in say Nike...

As we saw not too long ago ( a few months?), bitcoins have climbed in value far beyond any reasonable market value, and were ripe for a correction. And boy did they get it. Now im not a financial adviser so i cant say if they have found a more sustainable price or if another bubble-bursting is in the works. If someone told me one was i would believe it though.

Another problem was highlighted shortly after the bubble burst not too long ago; in order to stop the collapse, trading was suspended. And when trading resumed and so did the slide, they suspended it again. Basically bitcoin is owned by a private company and ultimately they can do whatever they want, including a bank holiday.

Im not a financial adviser, so take it at your own risk and all that, but im not jumping on the bitcoin bandwagon.
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Mexicanjoe
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 06:33:54 AM »

I agree. Its like paper gold or stocks. It can vanish in a keystroke.
If you dont hold it, you dont have it
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atomic17
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 02:12:22 PM »

At least paper gold or stocks are tied to the value of some real substrate that does have tangible value; bitcoins are even worse, because they have no underlying item of value.
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Mexicanjoe
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 02:23:55 PM »

I agree bit coins are worse. But again if an item is not turkey in front if you then it is not tangible.
A voucher isn't worth the paper it's written on in actuality.
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markthenewf
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 09:39:24 PM »

All I can recommend is that if you have a computer that's not in use (and it has a sensible vid card), that you get a bitcoin miner program and just set it running.  Even if it only makes a couple of bitcoins a year, it's just another option available to you.  I'm looking into this since once it's set up and running, it just does it's thing until you tell it to do otherwise.  This is much like the 'folding proteins' group applications utilized by Stanford to generate solutions for diseases.  I'm not ready to shut the door on it just yet.
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Mark
atomic17
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 07:20:41 PM »

Mark lets explore that idea to the fullest shall we, not because im dumping on it but because of the associated opportunity costs (free money isnt).

1) electricity for the computer. We will assume its not a top end gaming computer, so the PSU is probably between 300 and 500 watts. 400 seems a little high, but lets role with that for now. There are ~8766 hours in a year. At 0.4K watt hours/hour that translates into 3506 Kilo Watt Hours per year. Multiply by your electricity rate and you get your cost for juice, not counting any monitors or modems you also need. Texas Power seems to charge 14 cents per KWH, so in a year that amounts to 490 cents or 4.90 USD. Here in Quebecistan we pay 10 cents per KWH, so its only 3.50 CAN (assume parity its also 3.50 USD). I assume you use electricity for other stuff, so we will ignore service fees, meter reading charges etc etc.
2) heat output. That computer is putting out those 400 watts of energy in the form of heat, nearly 1/3 as much as a portable space heater. If you set the computer up in a basement or can open windows this wont matter in the least, but if you need to run your A/C extra to remove those 400 watts then that adds more electricity you need to buy to pump those watts outside. I cant calculate those as they depend on too many unique factors, but the cost is definitely there, and worth considering.
3) Setup time. Lets assume you spend an hour setting this up initially, then 15 minutes a month checking its working and such. Thats an hour and 45 minutes of your time. At minimum wage here in Quebec that is equivalent to 17.76$. In Texas it amounts to  12.68$. If you dont earn at least that amount, you are working below minimum wage (though you can claim your unemployed if this is your only stream of revenue i imagine, so in that case whatever you make is on top of your unemployment benefits).

I point these out not because i dont like your idea, but rather to point out the opportunity costs of mining bitcoins; they arent free money.
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Mexicanjoe
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 07:28:20 PM »

Ha.
I am out and on Bit Coins too.
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markthenewf
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 07:20:57 PM »

You can deconstruct it any way you want, but one of the big deals to me is that it's not taxed.  After almost 30 years in Canada having the financial life sucked outta me, that alone makes me want to use them!

For me, setup time and fiddling time is irrelevant.  It'll be a hobby thingy on the side, and if it brings in another source of 'income'... well, I'm all for that.  I'd rather put a bit of time/thought/effort into it now rather than regret it in the future like not buying gold when it was a pricey $400/oz!

This may never come to fruition, though.  Like I said, I'm just having a gander at it.  My reloading room, garden, and water catchment are in line with it.
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Keep your stick on the ice....

Mark
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